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	<title>Comments on: There Oughta Be A Law Against This</title>
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		<title>By: spg</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27398</link>
		<dc:creator>spg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27398</guid>
		<description>even in most of europe(italy is an exception - all sales of locked phones are banned) if you buy a carrier subsdiesed phone it is also locked to the carrier you bought it from. the big difference is that lots of people unlock the locked phones(there are plenty of shops both here and there that can do it in minutes or sometimes seconds for a small fee)as well as pay the full price to get one that was never locked or associated with any carrier.

the main reason to do this is to use a bargin MVNO or even a major carrier that offering much cheaper pricing if you do not take a subsidiesed phone. this largly comes out of an old practice in europe where phone shops would often &#039;buy back&#039; the phone when a customer signed a new 2 year contract esentially filling the customers pocket with cash. at one time this was very popular and largely something that drove the carriers to offer the cheaper plans for &#039;bring you own phone&#039; customers. i have asked a couple times in phone shops here in the US if they would buy back my phone if i signed a two year contract thast included a free phnes and they locked at me like i was absolutely crazy. if enough people asked this question thing may start to change; i am sure the carriers would much rather offer device nuetral plans that are cheaper than to have store manager kicking cash back to customers who keep using there old phone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>even in most of europe(italy is an exception &#8211; all sales of locked phones are banned) if you buy a carrier subsdiesed phone it is also locked to the carrier you bought it from. the big difference is that lots of people unlock the locked phones(there are plenty of shops both here and there that can do it in minutes or sometimes seconds for a small fee)as well as pay the full price to get one that was never locked or associated with any carrier.</p>
<p>the main reason to do this is to use a bargin MVNO or even a major carrier that offering much cheaper pricing if you do not take a subsidiesed phone. this largly comes out of an old practice in europe where phone shops would often &#8216;buy back&#8217; the phone when a customer signed a new 2 year contract esentially filling the customers pocket with cash. at one time this was very popular and largely something that drove the carriers to offer the cheaper plans for &#8216;bring you own phone&#8217; customers. i have asked a couple times in phone shops here in the US if they would buy back my phone if i signed a two year contract thast included a free phnes and they locked at me like i was absolutely crazy. if enough people asked this question thing may start to change; i am sure the carriers would much rather offer device nuetral plans that are cheaper than to have store manager kicking cash back to customers who keep using there old phone.</p>
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		<title>By: PhoneBoy</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27396</link>
		<dc:creator>PhoneBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27396</guid>
		<description>You have just described, in a nutshell, everything that is wrong with the way phones are sold in this country. To make a phone purchased for one carrier work on another should not involve major surgery. You should be able to plug in a SIM card and go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have just described, in a nutshell, everything that is wrong with the way phones are sold in this country. To make a phone purchased for one carrier work on another should not involve major surgery. You should be able to plug in a SIM card and go.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: spg</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27395</link>
		<dc:creator>spg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27395</guid>
		<description>the verizon phone i use was actually never locked; but i did have to modify the PRL(primary roaming list) to match sprints and make a number of other &#039;flash&#039; changes for the data to work properly. also since STI does not offically support phones not purchased through them(pageplus does though; they will assist with getting any CDMA phone working) it was neccasary to buy an sti mobile phone activate it and than move all the connection data including the ESN, ESID and MSID to my other phone. as far as STI is concerned i am still using the phone i purchased from them. i pay 0.19 cents per day for unlimited data.

if you have any verizon phone lying around you can call page plus at any time to instantly activate it, there is no charge for activation and you get $2.00 in free airtime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the verizon phone i use was actually never locked; but i did have to modify the PRL(primary roaming list) to match sprints and make a number of other &#8216;flash&#8217; changes for the data to work properly. also since STI does not offically support phones not purchased through them(pageplus does though; they will assist with getting any CDMA phone working) it was neccasary to buy an sti mobile phone activate it and than move all the connection data including the ESN, ESID and MSID to my other phone. as far as STI is concerned i am still using the phone i purchased from them. i pay 0.19 cents per day for unlimited data.</p>
<p>if you have any verizon phone lying around you can call page plus at any time to instantly activate it, there is no charge for activation and you get $2.00 in free airtime.</p>
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		<title>By: PhoneBoy</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27394</link>
		<dc:creator>PhoneBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27394</guid>
		<description>To some extent, that is the choice of the corporate sponsor (in this case, CHKP), but changing a device should involve changing the account in any way. The service (and device) are separate things. Can you imagine calling your local exchange carrier every time you changed the telephone handset in your house?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To some extent, that is the choice of the corporate sponsor (in this case, CHKP), but changing a device should involve changing the account in any way. The service (and device) are separate things. Can you imagine calling your local exchange carrier every time you changed the telephone handset in your house?</p>
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		<title>By: tco</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27393</link>
		<dc:creator>tco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27393</guid>
		<description>Back in the day @ CHKP this was not the case.   The corporate account has been locked down.  This is the choice of the company.  Not really an AT&amp;T thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back in the day @ CHKP this was not the case.   The corporate account has been locked down.  This is the choice of the company.  Not really an AT&amp;T thing.</p>
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		<title>By: PhoneBoy</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27392</link>
		<dc:creator>PhoneBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27392</guid>
		<description>Verizon phones are &quot;unlocked&quot; from what I understand anyway. :) STI Mobile is a Sprint MVNO, Pageplus is a Verizon one. It might be worthwhile to get a cheap PagePlus phone for emergencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Verizon phones are &#8220;unlocked&#8221; from what I understand anyway. <img src='http://phoneboy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  STI Mobile is a Sprint MVNO, Pageplus is a Verizon one. It might be worthwhile to get a cheap PagePlus phone for emergencies.</p>
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		<title>By: spg</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27391</link>
		<dc:creator>spg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27391</guid>
		<description>my suggestion for thoose who do not know how much they use but think they may save on prepaid. switch to prepaid when the contract ends, than on the first month that they would be better of bundled switch back. many people will never get to that month, particularly if they go with an opoerator like pageplus. even if they definatly want a bundled package page plus now offers 1500 minutes plus 1500 texts per month for $39.99 this is much cheaper than the big players. also vigin mobile and boost both have unlimited nationwide plans for $49.99 per month. the only great data deal that i know of is STI mobile which i have personally on an unlocked formerally verizon smart phone and works great; it is even possible to tether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my suggestion for thoose who do not know how much they use but think they may save on prepaid. switch to prepaid when the contract ends, than on the first month that they would be better of bundled switch back. many people will never get to that month, particularly if they go with an opoerator like pageplus. even if they definatly want a bundled package page plus now offers 1500 minutes plus 1500 texts per month for $39.99 this is much cheaper than the big players. also vigin mobile and boost both have unlimited nationwide plans for $49.99 per month. the only great data deal that i know of is STI mobile which i have personally on an unlocked formerally verizon smart phone and works great; it is even possible to tether.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27390</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27390</guid>
		<description>Another option that worked for me when I tested the iphone (eventually I decided to hold my old BB) was to &quot;get&quot; an iphone and switch the SIM. No extra cost. No account modification. 

See also http://securitypie.com/unfortunately-i-cant-use-an-iphone/ 

--Sharon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another option that worked for me when I tested the iphone (eventually I decided to hold my old BB) was to &#8220;get&#8221; an iphone and switch the SIM. No extra cost. No account modification. </p>
<p>See also <a href="http://securitypie.com/unfortunately-i-cant-use-an-iphone/" rel="nofollow">http://securitypie.com/unfortunately-i-cant-use-an-iphone/</a> </p>
<p>&#8211;Sharon</p>
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		<title>By: PhoneBoy</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27389</link>
		<dc:creator>PhoneBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 05:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27389</guid>
		<description>For the prepaid thing to work, you have to know what your usage patterns are so you know how frequently to top up and whether or not you&#039;re getting a good deal. I guarantee you most people have no clue how many minutes they use in a month.

And, of course, you have to only want voice minutes. It is damn near impossible to get prepaid data at anything resembling a good price, not withstanding some of the tricks you&#039;ve pointed out earlier that MAY or MAY NOT work ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the prepaid thing to work, you have to know what your usage patterns are so you know how frequently to top up and whether or not you&#8217;re getting a good deal. I guarantee you most people have no clue how many minutes they use in a month.</p>
<p>And, of course, you have to only want voice minutes. It is damn near impossible to get prepaid data at anything resembling a good price, not withstanding some of the tricks you&#8217;ve pointed out earlier that MAY or MAY NOT work <img src='http://phoneboy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: spg</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27388</link>
		<dc:creator>spg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27388</guid>
		<description>it has been way too long that carterfone has not yet been implemented for cell phones. countries that have always sold service and phones seperately tend to have per minute rates at a small fraction of those that do the 2 year contract/sub. phone thing.

but i believe the reality has as much to do with the american consumer accepting the practices of the operators as much as the actions of the oiperators themselves. 

you can save a ton of money going with the smaller unknown preapid MVNO&#039;s(such as pageplus or STI mobile) and using second hand unlocked phones. however in the USA almost no one would have a clue what you are talking about if you suggest they do so. in europe it is the small prepaid MVNO that have driven down prices for everyone. but over there the consumer has had a lot of interest in using them to save money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it has been way too long that carterfone has not yet been implemented for cell phones. countries that have always sold service and phones seperately tend to have per minute rates at a small fraction of those that do the 2 year contract/sub. phone thing.</p>
<p>but i believe the reality has as much to do with the american consumer accepting the practices of the operators as much as the actions of the oiperators themselves. </p>
<p>you can save a ton of money going with the smaller unknown preapid MVNO&#8217;s(such as pageplus or STI mobile) and using second hand unlocked phones. however in the USA almost no one would have a clue what you are talking about if you suggest they do so. in europe it is the small prepaid MVNO that have driven down prices for everyone. but over there the consumer has had a lot of interest in using them to save money.</p>
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		<title>By: Juergen</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27387</link>
		<dc:creator>Juergen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27387</guid>
		<description>Actually, the reason is quite simple, at least to me who frequently gets asked &quot;Why can&#039;t I buy $foo-phone, who cares what the corporate standard is&quot;: If anybody was able to buy what he likes, then you&#039;d see a race start... A gets a shiny new Nokia, now B wants to have something better and gets a Sony, C thinks &quot;I&#039;m geekier, I want a G1&quot;, D gets an iPhone 3G, E gets the 3GS 16GB just to show that he can, now A thinks &quot;Hey, my phone is lame, I want the 3GS 32GB NOW!!!1!1eleven!&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the reason is quite simple, at least to me who frequently gets asked &#8220;Why can&#8217;t I buy $foo-phone, who cares what the corporate standard is&#8221;: If anybody was able to buy what he likes, then you&#8217;d see a race start&#8230; A gets a shiny new Nokia, now B wants to have something better and gets a Sony, C thinks &#8220;I&#8217;m geekier, I want a G1&#8243;, D gets an iPhone 3G, E gets the 3GS 16GB just to show that he can, now A thinks &#8220;Hey, my phone is lame, I want the 3GS 32GB NOW!!!1!1eleven!&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27386</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27386</guid>
		<description>100% Agree. I especially don&#039;t like handing over my SS# for the credit check, as I&#039;ve been told there are other ways to perform said check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100% Agree. I especially don&#8217;t like handing over my SS# for the credit check, as I&#8217;ve been told there are other ways to perform said check.</p>
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		<title>By: PhoneBoy</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27385</link>
		<dc:creator>PhoneBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27385</guid>
		<description>My entire point is that one should not have to go through all this trouble just to acquire the device. You should just be able to walk into a store, present your cash/check/credit card, and walk out with the device of your choice. This kind of transaction should not be complicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My entire point is that one should not have to go through all this trouble just to acquire the device. You should just be able to walk into a store, present your cash/check/credit card, and walk out with the device of your choice. This kind of transaction should not be complicated.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27384</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27384</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m re-reading this and trying to get my head around your dilemma. My initial (albeit not complete) scattered thoughts on the matter - finding a relative who has AT&amp;T service and have the iPhone added to their account initially...or perhaps getting a AT&amp;T 3G-capable handset and swapping its SIM card with that of the iPhone...hmmmm. 

Once the phone is purchased (by whomever under a 2 yr agreement) after 30 days, you can break contract for 175.00 ETF.

Heck, if the person who purchases it via the AT&amp;T website is a new customer, by using the BING-assisted 35% off deal, (see TechCrunch post) you could save about 104.00 on the 3GS 32gb (and get Cashback after 60 days from purchase date) then cancel. The ETF is lowered 5.00 for every month that is completed. 
Ok, so numbers-wise, here goes: 
iPhone 3GS would then cost 300.00+ to purchase...plus 2 months service(140+ minimum)...then BING Cashback of 100.00+ (after 60 days)...then 165.00 ETF (after 2 months passed)...and you own the iPhone 3GS 32gb for about 515.00 invested when the dust settles.

Once you then &#039;own&#039; the phone out of contract, you could jailbreak it (if option to do so is ready and go to T-Mobile)
or you could take a AT&amp;T 3G sim from a handset that your company pays for and place it in the iPhone, no?

Sorry if so scattered here, just wanted to help somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m re-reading this and trying to get my head around your dilemma. My initial (albeit not complete) scattered thoughts on the matter &#8211; finding a relative who has AT&amp;T service and have the iPhone added to their account initially&#8230;or perhaps getting a AT&amp;T 3G-capable handset and swapping its SIM card with that of the iPhone&#8230;hmmmm. </p>
<p>Once the phone is purchased (by whomever under a 2 yr agreement) after 30 days, you can break contract for 175.00 ETF.</p>
<p>Heck, if the person who purchases it via the AT&amp;T website is a new customer, by using the BING-assisted 35% off deal, (see TechCrunch post) you could save about 104.00 on the 3GS 32gb (and get Cashback after 60 days from purchase date) then cancel. The ETF is lowered 5.00 for every month that is completed.<br />
Ok, so numbers-wise, here goes:<br />
iPhone 3GS would then cost 300.00+ to purchase&#8230;plus 2 months service(140+ minimum)&#8230;then BING Cashback of 100.00+ (after 60 days)&#8230;then 165.00 ETF (after 2 months passed)&#8230;and you own the iPhone 3GS 32gb for about 515.00 invested when the dust settles.</p>
<p>Once you then &#8216;own&#8217; the phone out of contract, you could jailbreak it (if option to do so is ready and go to T-Mobile)<br />
or you could take a AT&amp;T 3G sim from a handset that your company pays for and place it in the iPhone, no?</p>
<p>Sorry if so scattered here, just wanted to help somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: PhoneBoy</title>
		<link>http://phoneboy.com/3122/there-oughta-be-a-law-against-this/comment-page-1#comment-27383</link>
		<dc:creator>PhoneBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phoneboy.com/?p=3122#comment-27383</guid>
		<description>I was not going to buy the phone no-obligation since I have no desire to pay $700 for a phone. Even if you do, you still have to go through some sort of activation process to use the phone. That process involves a carrier--in this case AT&amp;T--making some changes on their end so the phone can be activated for use. Changes I can&#039;t make because I am a CRU. Even if they did let me walk out of the store with the phone in-hand, it would be a nice, shiny brick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was not going to buy the phone no-obligation since I have no desire to pay $700 for a phone. Even if you do, you still have to go through some sort of activation process to use the phone. That process involves a carrier&#8211;in this case AT&#038;T&#8211;making some changes on their end so the phone can be activated for use. Changes I can&#8217;t make because I am a CRU. Even if they did let me walk out of the store with the phone in-hand, it would be a nice, shiny brick.</p>
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